Ok fight fans, if you read my post on MMA way to victory then you may know there were some question that needed to be answered about the rule specifically about TKO, KO and submission. Here is the original question by Geoff “loco” Motive.
The Question: A couple of my MMA pool buddies and I are wondering….. We’ve seen fights that end with a guy tapping out due to strikes and they call the end of the fight (SUBMISSION DUE TO STRIKES). Now if you can earn a SUB via the way of striking… WHY….can’t a fight which ended in the manner that the Thiago-Swick fight ended which was a choke that Swick NEVER TAPPED from be a KO due to a ……. choke. We have been wondering and making our own cases for both sides of this argument and most of us feel that Paulo’s victory could have easily been ruled a KO. …….. Do you get what I’m saying here? We would loveyour input or for that matter anyone else to give us some feed back.
The Answer:
According to the unified rules of MMA , there are only three ways a fight can be stopped KO, TKO and Submission.
KO: as soon as a fighter becomes unconscious due to strikes.
Submission: a fighter may admit defeat during a match by: A tap on the body, mat or verbal announcement.
TKO: a fighter becomes dominant to the point where the opponent is unable to intelligently defend himself, goes unconscious from a grappling hold or has significant injury. Also doctor stoppage or corner stoppage.
Thiago choked Swick until he went unconscious, by the unified rules of MMA that would be ruled a TKO. I went to Sherdog.com and looked up fighter stats for Paulo Thiago. Sherdog has Paulo Thiago winning the fight by Technical Submission. That’s a new one for me. What other kind of submission is there. I’m just as gulity as the next guy for not doing my homework and knowing the rules of MMA. UFC .com has Paulo winning the fight by submission which is wrong. The rule clearly states a submission is a fighter admitting defeat. How could Swick admit defeat when he was dreaming about going to Disney World? If the UFC is reporting the fights wrong, that just opened up the door for more questions. Who’s right and who’s wrong?
Now I did so home work, an Email the Nevada Athletic Commission this is the e-mail I sent.
NSAC,
During UFC 109 Paulo Thiago win his fight by choking Mike swick unconscious. According to the unified rules of MMA Ways to Victory. There are only 5 way a fight can end unless it goes all five rounds. KO,TKO,Submission,Doctor stoppage,Corner stoppage.
A Submission is a fighter may admit defeat during a match by:
- a tap on the opponent’s body;
- a tap on the mat or floor;
- verbal announcement.
A TKO
- Referee Stoppage: the referee may stop a match in progress if:
- a fighter becomes dominant to the point where the opponent is unable to intelligently defend himself from attacks, which may occur as quickly as a few seconds;
- a fighter appears to be unconscious from a grappling hold;
- a fighter appears to have developed significant injuries in the referee’s view, such as a broken bone
On your results page it states Thiago win by choke out.
A choke out is not on the unified rules of mma way to victory nor is it under you results of contest. A chock out would be considered a submission but Swick never admitted defeat nor tapout. Swick went unconscious from a grappling hold which under the unified rules of MMA would be TKO.
My question is : Could you please clarify why this fight was rules a choke out and not a submission or a TKO. UFC.com also has the fight results posted as a submission. Fans are very confused with this ruling and would love to have some clarification on this matter.
Thank for your time
James
MMAPunk.com
This is the email I got back from Keith Kizer of the NSAC.
Thank you fro the E mail
Mixedmarticalarts.com the official MMA registry of the ABC,lists the Paulo Thiago and Randy Couture choke out win as a submission victory at UFC 109.
I’m ok with that. However, Like you I am not sure it falls neatly into any category.
Keith Kizer
Not the answer I was looking for so I e mail Mixedmartialarts.com to see what they had to say about this.Here’s what they had to say.
The fight was ruled a choke out by the NSAC. We have since updated our records when we received their official results.
Cheers,
Chris
Ok fight fans, I believe something very fishy is going on here. The NSAC says MMA.com list the fight on way and the MMA.com says NSAC ruled the fight a submission. I think this is a complete bunch of bull shit. We the fans deserve better info and a direct answer to the question.
I am calling on all MMA fans to help me out. Now that we a arm with the unified rules of MMA and knowledge is power let get some answers. I want all MMA fans to Email the NSAC and demand an answer to these question. Not side step it like Keith Kizer did. I would really like to know why these fights were rules submissions and not a TKO? Did the person ruling these fight have bets on the fight and ruled them in is favor to make so quick cash or do they not know the rules and just call it anything they want. This kinda of indiscretion will lead MMA down the wrong path and loss it’s credibility. So let’s band together and make our voice be heard.
Keith Kizer NSAC e mial kkizer@boxing.nv.gov
Please post any response you may receive from any returned Email.
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This is sweet James. I knew you were stand up the first time you e-mailed the boys back and answered some questions. Thanks for listening, I’m sure the boys will fire an e-mail to Kizer inlight of your dilegence. You da man thanks!
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Bam!! Bam!! Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 8:10 am
Right on man UFC.com ,NSAC,and MMA.com gotta bet their heads outta there ass
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thanx for the help james. im the 1 that brought it up to geoff cuz i had no idea where to look for answers,and the one they gave u is bullshit!i am dif gonna email them
once again thanx
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This is really a technical mess, when they don’t have their poop in a group. Way to keep on top of it!
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Honestly, I don’t understand what the big deal is. There’s no question who won and who lost, or how it all ended. So what difference does this make?
Chris´s last blog ..Why BJJ Sucks For Self-Defense
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Chris
What if you had money of the fight, then you would care. This kinda action question the credibility of MMA”s governing body. They make the rules and then don’t follow them.
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Bid difference between a sub and a TKO when it comes to a prop or a pool bet.
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